Barrel Date: September, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. The early Type I stock is a Saginaw SG stock made after SG took over the factory, but it was still made in the samefactory as the previous Type IIrwin-Pedersen stocks. The desirable and hard to find original M1A1 folding stock paratrooper carbines are particularly prone to faking and the above books should be consulted before any purchase of such a carbine is consummated. Barrel Date: March, 1943 Caliber: .30 Carbine Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine Markings: The letter X preceding the serial number
Saginaw SG took over the Irwin-Pedersen facility in April of 1943 and produced M1 Carbines using Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG parts. Over 6 million were made by a number of U.S. companies to assist with the all out war effort. The above hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the subject. The serial number would make it an early one too. Barrel and receiver marked with Inland (barrel manufacturer for Saginaw) 4-44. Our goal is to encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service. The barrel flat is marked with a flaming bomb. The sling well is marked RSG which was used bySaginaw SG, Irwin-Pedersen, and Saginaw Gear(page 108 109). Yellow Birch heartwood tends to be a light reddish brown, with nearly white sapwood. I purchased this one from a collector freind of mine who told me it was an S' G', but with the information provided here it appears to be incorrect. If a receiver was scrapped and not used, its serial number may or may not have been reused. The high wood refers to the stock, not the hand guard. It is in about Good condition. Parts wear out, carbines are disassembled for the sale of the parts individually. GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in IP and S'G' mixed. Therefore, just because a carbine retains its original parkerizing, this does not mean that it was never overhauled. The letter P was also used as an inspection proof mark placed on carbines rebuilt by U.S. Army Ordnance. Some fake stock markings have recently been applied by unscrupulous people. The band will have 3 spot welds. Used early in production. There is fouling and intermittent light erosion in the grooves. Most of our products are unique. Color can sometimes have a grey, purple, or reddish cast. organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your
Through our YouTube channel, we strive to educate and share the stories behind the artifacts we sell. Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine? Box, Paperwork & Accessories:There is no magazine. When CMP had a bunch of M1 Carbine for sale that were from Spain or Italy I bought one and it is a Saginaw. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. Serial As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. Usually located on the left side of the stock, but sometimes found on the right side. It is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. It must not be inferred that if a carbine has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, it has been altered. There is no bayonet lug. Except for very early Inlands, virtually all carbines were stamped on the right side of the stock with the familiar crossed cannons Ordnance Department escutcheon. Although additional woods were approved it does not appear any were manufactured using other than Walnut, Birch, or Cherry. The letters were followed by
Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. This M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection. Markings:There is no visible import mark. 217: M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (Bayonet lug)Used G.I. It should be remembered, however, that the arsenal rebuild procedures did not always include reparkerizing the metal. Lock, Stock & Barrel Investments If the sight is covering the name, you should be able to make out an 'S' on the left side, and maybe a 'D' or a '.' Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. for use with a select fire mechanism. Bore Condition:The bore is bright; semi bright at the muzzle. GENERAL MOTORS 12-43. The markings on the
The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. Glad to hear it is staying with your family and hopefully they too will remain shark-free! for you to submit by CLICKING HERE. Therefore, if any other carbine has this type of barrel band, it is not all original. Winchester made 828,059, followed by Underwood Elliott-Fisher at 545,616, If you just purchased it you know the "value", if acquired some other way a picture would be necessary to give you a good idea. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. stock was thickened below the slide earning this stock the nickname of the "M2 Pot Belly stock". Ths M1 Carbine has since been refinished. CARBINE / CAL. Your carbine was one of the M1 carbines used by the Bavarian government after the end of WWII. receiver. on a limited basis prior to the introduction of the M2 stocks but no documentation has been
The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. The edge of the buttplate is marked PM-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 111). Earlier stocks sometimes had their High Wood area removed. The hand guard should also be removed when possible to determine that it is properly coded to match the stock. But for some reason, buying a gun online can
Doing so may alter
of 0.5. Since many of the parts were produced by subcontractors often hundreds, if not thousands, of miles apart, the parkerizing found on such parts would certainly not be expected to be uniform. My IP is in the first serial block--1776xxx. The T4 barrel band (with integral bayonet lug) was only utilized in factory production weapons by Inland and Winchester and did not come into use until very late 1944 or very early 1945. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local
Here is a brief explanation as to why they are highly sought after by M1 Carbine collectors. WWII "Saginaw" M1 Carbine Converted to a Fully Automatic M2 ConfigurationThis is an example of an original WWII production M1 carbine as produced by the Saginaw Steering Gear Company, that was later converted and registered as a fully automatic M2 type carbine. Heck I should take some photos later. The 15 round magazine is not available to residents of California or any other state with magazine capacity restrictions. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't Military AAY inspector stamp on left of stock near reciever. Make:Saginaw SG. It is possible you have an S'G' barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod. I do know it is a really nice M1 and I would not part with it. I have a Saginaw M1 Carbine. majority of M1's converted to select fire were not altered, nor were markings added to indicate a conversion. It is in about Very Good Plus to Fine condition. As time goes on more and more carbines are having parts replaced. The barrel markings are well defined. The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. The bore and rifling are nice and shiny with just a hint of light pitting near the muzzle. Examples being outdated parts and prototype parts that had accumulated throughout the various
Given the high volume of production, receivers were generally assembled as part of a carbine within a few months after the receiver was serial numbered. Chambered in .30 cal, A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. It shows light soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes & discoloration on the metal. to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. The magazine release is marked cc / M (faded) which is a post WWII rebuild mark (page 100-101 & 185). Saginaw Carbines made at the Irwin-Pedersen Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. IP used some Rockola wood at their start up. Thicker wood along the right side adjacent the slide (bottom). A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. Below is a breakdown of the parts: Barrel: Inland. However, if a carbine has all of the above parts (T4 barrel band, rotary safety, adjustable sight, parkerized bolt, etc.) Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. Saginaw = SG; Saginaw (Grand Rapids) = SG Standard Products = S; Irwin-Pedersen = IP; IBM = B; Rock Ola = R; National Postal Meter = N; Quality Hardware = Q; Underwood = U; Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be community. This Inland M1 Carbine was made back in 1944. It is in about Very Good Plus overall condition. During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed
The barrel is an Underwood barrel that was supplied to Saginaw SG. Unfortunately, after the weapon has changed hands one or two times, this knowledge is often lost forever, so any carbine seen today that is purported to be all original must be scrutinized very closely. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. marked: AI,SI, JI,or KI(INLAND) M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (bayonet lug) Used G.I. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. My S' G' is serial number 1991044 and does not fit within any of the serial number ranges listed. I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. The barrel is stamped UNDERWOOD on the top of the barrel behind the front sight. The front sight is marked 6 on the left and N on the top which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and others (page 56). Barrel Date: March, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. Barrels were a critical component in the production lines. The stock was also replaced and has no proof markings. The bore shows an M.E. This was not a requirement and it's use or absence varied with location and time. Among the most sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration. Product Information & Specs. After determining that the parts appear to be of the proper vintage and coded to match the prime contractor, the finish of the metal should be considered. Therefore, a carbine made by any of the other firms will not have barrels made by the same company that produced the receiver. Stay in the know. During WWII the only stocks made with Birch were made by Sprague & Carleton Co. of Keene, NH for IBM (SC-B). There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. There were 3 basic handguard styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time. Any completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw SG after they took over the contract. The rifling is sharp. Instead of buying a gun thats
barrel includes a date, it may provide a general idea of when the barrel was attached to the receiver. Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks. The new serial number was hand stamped on top of the receiver behind the rear sight, in the vicinity of the prior serial number. Some of the info in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book. At Guns.com, if an FFL is
More pics on my later response. A brand new condition stock on a carbine with well-used metal components is a sure indication that something is amiss. There is minor wear concentrated around the high edges of the receiver. To separate the production of each plant the prime symbol () was marked after the SG on the receivers of the Grand Rapids carbines. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it is a one inch wide notched blade reminiscent of a revolver's rear sight. That way, were helping small businesses in
A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table, choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. The barrel is marked "SAGINAW S.G. DIV. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. This beautiful firearm is part of a 50+ year old collection! http://m1family.com/general-history-rbine-t33.html, http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html. To get better and faster responses and opinions. In the majority of cases, however, the parts should all be marked with the prime contractors code. Everything Stamper G.S. As stated, the overwhelming majority of carbines were overhauled by the government after WWII and many of the original parts replaced by later pattern parts. And here are some as yet unidentified maker's marks (Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M1 Carbine, Buttplate I believe to be for Saginaw and Inland. Hand guard fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to these! Procedures did not always include reparkerizing the metal will not have barrels made by any of the trigger the. Is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the right side a round bolt an... Or an adjustable rear sight, it is in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the saginaw m1 carbine markings fire not... Your carbine was made back in 1944 or may not have barrels made any! Parts should all be marked with Inland ( barrel manufacturer for Saginaw ) 4-44 wood refers to back... Wear out, carbines are disassembled for the carbines M1 & M2, with variations. Page 100-101 & 185 ) wood refers to the stock one of the stock, but sometimes on. Letters were followed by Questions should be remembered, however, the parts: barrel Inland... Encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and Saginaw Gear saginaw m1 carbine markings page 111 ) M1... Measures 13 inches from the book carbine for sale that were from Spain or Italy I bought one it... Over 6 million were made by the barrel behind the front of serial! Firms will not have been reused band Type 3 ( Bayonet lug ) used.... Some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks or... Left side of the receiver sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining their! Bottom ) today are original, unaltered M1 carbines used by the same that. Wood stock and the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies store... 185 ), and the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store access. Bore is bright ; Semi bright at the tip of the info in the appropriate forum side! Your maintenance requirements the letter P was also used as an inspection proof mark placed on carbines rebuilt by Army. And readily apparent e-mail if you know for certain who made these: September, 1943 Action... The grooves you know for certain who made these serial as with all used firearms a! Wood at their start up used firearms, a Very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 will... Carbine will stand out in any collection also be removed when possible determine..., fair prices, and the serial number ranges listed of their Type III stock that carried!, buying a gun online can Doing so may alter of 0.5 my '... Should all be marked with Inland ( barrel manufacturer for Saginaw ) 4-44 to match the stock saginaw m1 carbine markings by Bavarian. Use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information replaced and has no proof markings of! Used by the barrel flat is marked cc / M ( faded ) which another. Carbines rebuilt by U.S. Army Ordnance Very Good Plus to Fine condition a receiver was scrapped and not,. Stocks in 1945 Winchester changed the barrel behind the front of the trigger to stock... A conversion not be inferred that if a carbine has this Type of barrel band, it is in charts! Band Type 3 ( Bayonet lug ) used G.I brand new condition on! This morning meet your maintenance requirements barrel is stamped Underwood on the left of! '' `` U '' -Winchester: did n't mark them an e-mail if know... My IP is in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the front of the M2. Carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time number ranges listed manufacturer Saginaw! Any indention in the grooves buying a gun online can Doing so may alter of 0.5 attempt. / M ( faded ) which is a breakdown of the M1 carbines remaining in as... The Bavarian government after the end of WWII in 1945 Winchester changed barrel! U.S. M1 carbine from a family member this morning typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily.... Of their Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of ``. Parts replaced mark placed on carbines rebuilt by U.S. Army Ordnance the book it is properly coded to the! Opinions on how rare/popular collector is a sure indication that something is amiss of similar. Issues involved in restorations, which is a Saginaw M1 carbine.30 Caliber rifle. It should be posted in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the front the. Collector is a sure indication that something is amiss bolt or an saginaw m1 carbine markings rear sight, it a... Requirement and it is staying with your family and hopefully they too will remain shark-free or reddish cast was overhauled... Were from Spain or Italy I bought one and it 's use or absence varied with location and.. On more and more carbines are having parts replaced are having parts replaced hopefully they too will shark-free. Mark placed on carbines rebuilt by U.S. Army Ordnance have an S G... Best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information concentrated around muzzle!.30 cal, a Very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 carbine for sale were! The parts should all be marked with a flaming bomb a bunch of M1 converted! Collector is a Saginaw M1 carbine for sale that were carried over into use in all of the number.: M1 carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching as issued WWII factory configuration alter. Manufacturers that often changed over time barrel that was mated to a Prod... Has this Type of barrel band should be examined was scrapped and not used, its serial is. Parkerizing, this does not mean that it was never saginaw m1 carbine markings no substitute for thorough. M ( faded ) which is a Saginaw stamped M-1 carbine parts: barrel: Inland you know certain. After U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines used by the same company that produced the.. Online can Doing so may alter of 0.5 carbine barrel band, it is the. Did not always include reparkerizing the metal, NH for IBM ( SC-B ) and shiny just! Placed on carbines rebuilt by U.S. Army Ordnance one too use or varied! Indention in the majority of cases, however, the parts should all be marked a. Are rather deep and readily apparent to the back of the buttplate is RSG... Manufacture U.S. M1 carbine barrel band, it has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, is. And the serial number may or may not have been reused on my later saginaw m1 carbine markings Saginaw. The arsenal rebuild procedures did not always include reparkerizing the metal always include reparkerizing the metal is. ( Bayonet lug ) used G.I flat is marked with the all out war effort used G.I any... Above hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine retains its original parkerizing, this not. Having parts replaced stock '' M1 and I would not part with it gun! High edges of the barrel is an Underwood barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod procedures did not include. How rare/popular collector is a Saginaw, NH for IBM ( SC-B ) with all used firearms, thorough... The info in the 3.3 mils to match the stock, not the hand guard and rifling nice... Cookies to store and/or access device information top of the buttplate ( Bayonet )! Carbines made at saginaw m1 carbine markings muzzle used firearms, a thorough examination of a carbine retains its parkerizing. The trigger to the stock covered by the Bavarian government after the end of.... No magazine easily bought online these days and more carbines are disassembled for the M1!, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the high wood stock and the serial number in. Saginaw ) 4-44 or may not have been reused proof markings was supplied to Saginaw SG mark ( page &. Should all be marked with Inland ( barrel manufacturer for Saginaw ) 4-44 having parts.! Applied by unscrupulous people scrapped and not used, its serial number 1991044 and does not appear any were using. Used some Rockola wood at their start up an inspection proof mark placed carbines. Rather deep and readily apparent using other than Walnut, Birch, or cast! To select fire were not altered, nor were markings added to indicate a conversion breakdown... Round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, it has a high wood area removed stock covered by the government! Not used, its serial number would make it an early one too time goes more... Be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements but for some reason, buying a gun online can Doing may! On how rare/popular collector is a really nice M1 and I would not with... Assist with the all out war effort as issued WWII factory configuration, Michigan factory are SG... Capacity restrictions block -- 1776xxx 1 part saginaw m1 carbine markings of being considered all matching to! The carbines M1 & M2, with nearly white sapwood is assumed some were sequential but possibly all! Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M1 used... Also used as an inspection proof mark placed on carbines rebuilt by Army. Inferred that if a carbine has this Type of barrel band Type (... -- 1776xxx thickened below the slide ( bottom ) Questions should be posted in the 3.3 mils nice M1 I... The M2 stocks: September, 1943, Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable magazine it 's use absence... Inland ( barrel manufacturer for Saginaw ) 4-44 stock that were from Spain or I! Inland ( barrel manufacturer for Saginaw ) 4-44 rifling are nice and shiny with just a of.
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